Allergy to Russians and "peaceful compromises". Sociologist Antipovich explains if our Russophobia is sufficient - interview

So far, only a visa regime for Russian citizens has been introduced in Ukraine, and only on July 1. Alexei Antipovich, a well-known sociologist and leader of the sociological group rating, tells about progress in the non-admissible Ukrainians of Russians, allergies to any "peaceful compromises" and underwhelming political games that have not disappeared. She talked with the sociologist, Olena Tribushna, the editor-in-chief and the presenter of the YouTube channel is a question.

- The President has recently urged Western countries to ban the Russians. At the same time, the President's website, where he is called for banning the Russian entry into Ukraine, also gained enough votes in order to consider it. It seems to me that many Ukrainians would like it now.

Is it just in my "bubble" yes? How do you evaluate moods in society? Our Russophobia sufficient? -In fact, it cannot be called a "bubble", because at the time of April-May-June 70% of Ukrainians were negative about the Russians. This is despite the fact that such dynamics were before the start of a full -scale invasion. In 2016-2017, we recorded a positive attitude towards the Russians at the level of half of Ukrainians, and this was constantly declining.

Even at the beginning of a full -scale invasion, in March, there were only 15% of Ukrainians who treated the Russians positively. There are now only 8% of these, and there is still a neutral attitude of about 20% for today. I am silent about the story until 2014 - then the vast majority of Ukrainians were positive about the Russians.

Once again, today 70% of Ukrainians have a hostile attitude, and this indicator is increasing, because every week, every day, every month we will learn about new crimes of the Russian army in Ukraine. Indicators of positive attitude towards the Russians are confidently heading to zero. Therefore, the negative attitude towards enabling Russians to come to Ukraine has a great justification, and sociological.

- In the context of talking about the ban on entry to all Russians, the topic of their collective responsibility was again. Do the average Russians be responsible for what their country does - even if they condemn it? Do sociologists investigate this question? - Sociologically, it is not to investigate, it is rather a moral aspect.

Here we will ask the Russian questions: does he be responsible for the war? Such research is made by Russian sociological centers, but there is a huge percentage of error, because people are not frank. Russia is terribly intimidated, and they will not truely correspond to sociologists. But there are still some trends - people are not ready to take responsibility for what is happening in Ukraine.

But what do you expect from an ordinary person? What will she say "yes, I'm guilty"? Some individual categories, very small, may say frankly. But how much they are responsible is the moral aspect, and sociologically it can hardly be determined. - It seems to me that we ourselves are also responsible for what has allowed for so many years, for example, pro -Russian parties in Ukraine. And probably everyone is guilty of what happened. - You are absolutely right. Here's a clean mirror.

If you turn the situation and think about whether those Ukrainians who spoke Russian should be responsible for pro -Russian parties, supported the thesis "Russians and Ukrainians - one people", nostalgic for the Soviet Union? I will remind you that we had such as half of the Ukrainians, and I do not think that everyone will beat themselves in the chest and cry, recognizing that he was wrong. No, these people just changed their views and went on. Russia is an enemy for 100% of Ukrainians.

The pro -Russian party can no longer exist in Ukraine. All that concerns Russia has become toxic. The Moscow Patriarchate has almost disappeared. And where did their believers go? They are, but in sociological polls, MP supporters call themselves a very small part. But there were many. The same in relation to the Russian language. We have a native language called Ukrainian 80%, and constantly at home they communicate only 50%. That is, there are certain points. And so you can walk on many points.

It can be said that the pro -Russian segment can remain non -verbalized pro -Russian. These people will never say that they are pro -Russian, but they will remain in Ukraine at the level of Margines, up to 10%. Now we see them on various polls, we can catch them different indirect questions, but this is not the question of whether these people recognize that they are guilty of attacking Russia.

But in the end, the Ukrainian, like any person, is much easier to shift the responsibility to someone the great, some representative of power, some state. Of course, in Russia a huge percentage of support for the so -called "special operation", and no matter what figures are shown by Russian sociologists, this support is still great. Let them even highly demonstrate it, but the trend is significant. Much of the Russians support.

When this awareness comes, it is repentance? Let's see how it will be in Russia. - Everyone that the Kremlin is doing now, it seeks to bring the situation to ensure that Ukrainians begin to ask their power to sign some "peace", to freeze everything as is. It seems to me that moods are opposite now in society. The more the Russians press, the more resistance we receive here.

How do you evaluate the readiness of Ukrainians now to the end, as much as they need? - Sometimes I doubt the thesis and assumptions that Putin is pressing at the atrocities to give up. Yes, it is a lot of nights - missiles, deaths, dangers, anxieties, people who have left, torn families. But at the same time it mobilizes to win as much as possible. The Ukrainian is not really ready to make no concessions. The Ukrainian is really ready to fight for victory.

The Ukrainian may be at the end, when the victory will approach, can evaluate their attitude to certain aspects, because the victory is for everyone. For someone, victory is to reach Moscow and break the Kremlin. For someone, victory is to enter the borders of 1991. For someone, winning the situation before February 24. For some, victory is to stop the war on the borders now, it is a very small number of people, a couple of percent, but they are.

That is, everyone's victory is, but all the atrocities and crimes of the Russians, the bomb - they only encourage the Ukrainian to fight. In general, the compromise field is destroyed, even sociologically looking at different indicators - so we only deteriorate the attitude towards Russia, Russians and only increases the desire to conquer their entire territory and punish the invaders. That is, a request for justice. Perhaps this is all nightmares focus on Europeans, west.

On the one hand, it is a beast - it demonstrates its power, and on the other hand, it is a conversation of the Kremlin with Europeans or Americans. Putin wants some negotiations - there, not here. For him, Ukraine is a battlefield. This is what he thinks he owns. Sociologically talking that it should encourage Ukrainians to compromise or want to find a compromise - nothing like that. Ukrainians will demolish their own power, if, God forbid, it will go to some compromises.

I think power understands it. You are right, we talk about 80-90% - this is not a "bubble" or a separate part. It is a total Ukrainian society. - Society is set to the fact that the war can last for a long time? - Ukrainians from measurement to measurement, from a month to month demonstrate that they have come to understand that they need to be delayed for a long time.

Different indicators - how long the war will last, how much time it takes to rebuild, among those who have changed the location - the so -called IDPs, when they return - all this is delayed a little later. In March, in April, one expert about "two to three weeks and the war will end" was very popular-it was reflected in the mood of Ukrainians. Many Ukrainians believed that a few weeks, maybe a month, maybe two - and all this would end, we would win.

Now yes - year, over a year, and some consider more. Reconstruction - we believed that we will rebuild Ukraine in five years, and now we believe in 5-10 years. When will IDP return? In March-April, it was "soon", here is literally a little more-and I will come back. Now - only after the war. Everything is delayed. The Ukrainian understood this, the Ukrainian learned to live in the war, the Ukrainian is strictly strictly psychological, there are no failures, there is no panic, there is no failure.

Yes, tension increases, but that does not mean that we fall. Our capabilities are reduced within some limits, but we still stay. This was at least at the time of June and July. Let's see that we will bring us August and September that will be in the fall. The economic component will be important, it will also connect. Conservation is not eternal, and the Ukrainian sooner or later feel difficulties. Many already feel, but somehow everything moves.

The difficult period is ahead, and Ukrainians understand it. - Politics does not return to our lives yet? I mean, do you see signs that political games have started in some forms and do not order policies yet? - Sociology in Ukraine, we can say, died, and is kept on our conditional initiatives or on certain orders of international organizations that monitor the situation in Ukraine. But this is not a policy at all - these are some humanitarian things.

With regard to political life, I do not think that it has died - it clearly happens. It was simply a period when politicians tried somehow there with a machine, or on an APC, or with a jeep to attract themselves to the theme of war, to demonstrate that they were actualized, that they are on the edge of attacks and so on. But the Ukrainian does not reflect on it as that he will vote for this policy in the future. Nothing like.

Now it is just some kind of maintaining yourself afloat in terms of politics. The Ukrainian is not ready to think about the elections. The field of view is the Armed Forces of Ukraine, the authorities are specifically the President, and the Ukrainians themselves, who help each other and the Armed Forces, are occupied, think about survival, go abroad, return, think about the future of children.

There is a life that goes independently of the war, and this is in view, so there is no place for politics. It will not be after the war, of course. And the ratings of power will probably not be so high. There will be some new faces, but these are no longer the new faces we talked about a few years ago when the request was for new politicians. It will be another reality.

This is not a "party of military" or a "party of volunteers" - we are talking about another quality of policy, which, I hope, will have. It will cause other politicians, but it awaits us after the war. And now Ukrainians do not really think about it, no matter how they want politicians who are not in power now. - In fact, it seems to me that people even think about the request for a new policy and new faces.

But there will be a request, and people who would meet this request will appear? - I would not like to talk about politics now, but I know at least one name that was present in Ukrainian politics before the war, and is now actively manifested in volunteer activity, and will definitely have prospects in post -war Ukraine in terms of electoral indicators. We have a huge number of experts and bloggers who have millions of views, millions of subscribers, and they can also claim something.

Just when it comes to real policy - will it be after the war, and how will a conditional military expert fit into a civilian peaceful life? It will be a little different. Maybe a train can still be cut - in parliament or somewhere in power, but not the fact that it will be in demand later. Probably, we will talk about politics after victory.

I think, the decisive thing in this will be what our victory will be, what price it will be, what boundaries will be in our country, how the authorities will behave, whether it will not be fooling, because now the authorities can claim any electoral indicators. All other electoral figures are very small. This will depend on it. In what borders will we be - will also have a role.

If we do not assure something, then there will be disappointment, a unambiguous blow to power, an unambiguous blow to the state, an unambiguous request for opposition, which will be granted power for what was occupied or lost. It's not now, it's all then. Currently, the Ukrainian believes in victory - more than 90%. This faith is kept, the Ukrainian is attached to victory, the Ukrainians are one.

We, as sociologists, absolutely do not see the difference not just between the East and the West - the largest watershed that existed in Ukraine. We no longer see the difference between the answers of young and elders, or between men and women - it does not exist in all worldviews. Yes, there are some biological aspects, with weapons in their hands will walk men, not women, more can work young, not older - there are such objective factors.

But in the mind or in everything else, we are one, and this is very good. The question - will we remain so after the war? And how much do these politicians start to shake us by mobilizing our electorate? I will have a lot of questions in front that we will explore, answer and, I hope to put on the table and journalists, authorities, and politicians. There may be a situation that many will be dissatisfied with the victory or the victory will not be like that.

I will end this thesis with a classic Ukrainian anecdote: the Ukrainian is even a trident on the Kremlin - so they will say that he did not hang, and not so hanged, and not such a trident. Will we move away from this tradition is the same question. - Do you see that society has grown during the war? What would be critical in society because of war so that we can become another country after it? - First of all, we grew up that we began to connect with this country.

We began to identify as citizens of Ukraine. Whatever I did not deny, only 8 out of 10 Ukrainians identified themselves as Ukrainian citizens before the war - in August last year, not so long ago. Today it is 10 from 10. Before the war, we had a clear branch: the people live separately, the authorities live separately, somewhere we cross, everyone wanted the state to make some social gifts to people, but no one had much hoped for the honesty or constructiveness of power.

Many were ashamed to say that they were Ukrainians. It was not too long ago - half a year ago. There is not all this today. Being Ukrainian is pride. Ukrainians feel pride, hope and power to say that we may be one of the leaders in the European Society. These changes have taken place.

Further, the questions will be to the state - will state men, managers, politicians not care what Ukrainians have earned, what they felt? The Ukrainian wanted to be Ukrainian, the Ukrainian defends his independence - not the city, not the territory and not even the family. Ukrainians fight for independence, for a state where it is not ashamed to live, for a state where children want to live, future generations.