"Partisans in Russia need weapons." Ilya Ponomarev and two associations want to demilitarize, denoceize, decolonrate the Russian Federation. Interview

- On the eve of the Armed Forces, the Legion of Freedom of Russia and the National Republican Army have signed a declaration of cooperation and plan to create a joint political center that you head. The Armed Forces unit was created in March 2022. It was mostly included in the Russians. But I do not fully understand that it is behind the second organization. Explain. Video Day - National Republican Army (NRA - Ed. ) Is a structure that exists within the Russian Federation.

It is an organization of guerrillas, which fight, arrange various attacks, arson of military enlistment offices and a rail war. There have been several attacks on activists who raise money in paramilitary groups B so -called "LNR" and "DNR". This organization became known after the attack on Dugini on August 20, in which the daughter of the famous Russian fascist Alexander Dugin was killed. - That is, is the community of Russian guerrillas working directly in Russia? - Exactly.

It is a power fist that exists in Russia itself. - This power fist and the Armed Forces Unit Legion Freedom of Russia, which consists of Russians, who are fighting on the side of Ukraine have created a common political center that you headed. What is its goal? - It was a Legion initiative, because now we have a common problem. No one knows what is the purpose of the legion and what is the purpose of the existence of the NRA.

They came to me after the explosion on August 20, because there were various issues and challenges on social networks. They said, “Time has come. It is necessary to create a public representative office to start communicating with different public authorities, both in Ukraine and outside - with international bodies; We need to communicate with the media, we need to explain who we are doing; spread our influence and grow through it.

- Did these Russian guerrillas authorize you to sign this Declaration on the Center? - So. I addressed them with this initiative and passed this initiative of the Legion. They agreed, said it was a good idea. From the very beginning, they asked me to help them in terms of media and various logistics. But, of course, one question when I do it as an individual, roughly speaking, at my own expense.

And another question, when we can turn to a wider circle of people and to different states, and put it on a systemic basis. That's what I will do now. - I will return to your goals again. You have partially voiced - to do your best to stop the war. Do you have global goals within this newly created organization? - Our global goal, I think, is obvious: to destroy Putin, to end the war and to create a new Russia - demilitarized, denacified and decolonized.

To liberate the occupied territories and most importantly - to destroy the empire, to create democratic Russia, where the authorities would belong to the citizens of the country in which oligarchs, corruption and where the power would belong to the people. - Then it was not Russia, but 32 or 43 states. This seemed to be stated at the last forum of the Freedom Peoples of Russia, which took place in Prague. - There are different attitudes.

There was a forum where there were different separatists who have such an opinion about many different states. In my opinion, this is not a very likely scenario. First, I do not see the prerequisites now. Many different regions are mostly recipients of assistance from the center, not donors. And for them, such separation can be very difficult and even dangerous. But there are certain regions that are highly likely to be separated and go as an independent, independent state.

For example, Chechnya - Ichceria: it is very likely that they will choose this path. But it will not be a rule. - In your idea of ​​ideal Russia, these peoples themselves have to decide who they be with - with Russia or separately? - Of course. It should be public opinion. Peoples need to determine whether they want to continue to exist inside the Russian Federation.

Probably not even the Russian Federation: I believe that the country will be so significantly restarted that there will be a new name and a new state that will exist in this place. For example, the Russian Republic. But it is necessary to reinstall it. The new constitution should be a common creation of people and territories and republics. And they need to agree with it. And whoever agrees with the new design will remain; And whoever is not - they can separate.

- If you take the Russian top - the Kremlin or maybe some other institution. There are people who agree to the goals and plans of the NRA - these so -called guerrillas, which, as you say, operate in Russia. Are people who are not involved in power and do not make a decision so far? - NRA is a radical political formation, so of course their ideas will not be as mass. But I believe that many people will sympathize with what the National Republican Army says.

We have published their manifesto and it is very popular as for me. But we need to think how to create a future - a revolutionary government, a transitional administration (I do not know what it will be called). There will be different people, including more [moderate]. I think the program will be more compromise, but the direction of this program NRA is very well expressed. - What is your personal motivation to be there? You have been a citizen of Ukraine since 2019.

Who do you see yourself in New Russia? - Now, in my opinion, there is no more important task for Ukraine how to create a new Russian government and a new design there. I think that now we simply will not win and we will not be safe, if we do not create [in Russia] a new order, if we just try to forget, separate, build a fence. The empire will recover if there is [Alexei] Navalny, [Michael] Khodorkovsky, others. Will be the same.

Therefore, I consider it my responsibility to do everything I can, as a Ukrainian patriot, as born in Russia, in Moscow, man - to create this new constitution, the construction of power. I do not want to be President of the Russian Federation and so on. But I want to be an architect of a new system that will not be a threat to all neighbors. I want to be part of history as a person who turned Russia into a modern, democratic, free and safe country.

- Are you aware that it can take many years? What can your business continue to do the next generation? What is the ideal Russian world not in our lives? - Of course. The process will last a long time.

But the main thing here is the first stage, the beginning of this path - as it will be created, what will be the new constitution, what will be the new construction of the new government, what will be procedures, political parties, which will be restraints and counterweights, which will be the balance of power.

It is very important that this is not created by those who are interested in their personal authorities who will again write the constitution for themselves, as it happened in 1993 in the Russian Federation. If it will be written by people who want to remain neutral from the point of view of this political construction.

Then, several times I publicly spoke about it, apparently, I would have headed the Supreme Court of the Russian Federation to be an author's supervision over the design that will be created. And let the political parties that appear in this space are competing freely, and let the people choose what he likes and what he does not like.

- Why did you decide that the Russian people most want decolonization, free Russia and all that good and beautiful you have listed? We have no idea what the Russian people want. Can you offer them what they don't want? -First, I am sure that I know what they want, because I was a deputy for 10 years, who did not get out of different settlements, small towns. I think that I know very well what the average citizen of Russia wants. Of course, he does not think about democracy, freedom, human rights.

This is not his question. His question is his own safety, his own life; whether he is a wealthy person or not; what education he has, his children; What is medicine, infrastructure. This is a normal life desire. And when Putin comes to him and says "all your problems - through the West, NATO, the IMF. We will win them and heal then ”, he (Russian - ed. ) Cannot evaluate whether it is true or not. He says, "Okay, Putin, let's do.

" But now they already understand that Putin is impossible to expect anything from Putin for how many years he has been headed by the government, but he did nothing. Because a real alternative to which the average citizen will believe . . . That is why the NRA is very important. If they destroy the most famous Gentiles of Russia, then people will realize that this is an alternative because it is strength. And then they will follow us, I am 100% sure.

This should be clearly shown to people that such an alternative exists. - You have hurriedly mentioned Navalny and not in good light. You have no expectations about Navalny? I, reading representatives of some Russian opposition or citizens, see that many of them still have high hopes for Navalny. - Many, yes.

There is a liberal attitude within the Russian liberal opposition, which is the most powerful (this is true) now the opposition politician will break this wall and then "we will go there and rule. " But I think it is a bad [thought], because a large and truly powerful person, he will not share power with anyone. I believe that he has imperialist views that every person in Ukraine knows.

Many different people like Gary Kasparov, Khodorkovsky do not want to come to Ukraine and have not tried, even cooperating with Ukraine, because they think it will be unpopular within the Russian Federation. They try to say different good words, but at a distance. I think this is an indicator whether they really fight, whether they expect when Ukrainians release Russia for them. - That is, they still count on some political future and think that it can hurt? - Of course.

They believe that the defeat of Putin will definitely happen, and that you do not need to do anything because it is doing the Ukrainian army. And you just have to wait - to create for yourself the most useful position for the future, so that there are less opponents and as many fans as possible. But I think it is necessary to fight and it is a must. Only the one who fights and gets power. Only the rifle gives birth to power. - You headed the political center of the Russians against Putin in Kiev.

What do you expect from Ukrainians - power or society? Do you expect support and which one? - Of course, this movement needs weapons. This is the main thing. Of course, we also need some legitimation - what the Ukrainian authorities can do at the political level. If she recognizes us, of course, we will be easier to do, communicate with others - with Russians and other countries. But the main thing is weapons. We want to fight, not speak. I think that the struggle will be recognized.

- What does "we need weapons" mean? Whom? Will you hand it to the guerrillas to Russia? - And the guerrillas in Russia need a weapon, of course. 100% it is needed. There are also many different people of Russian descent inside the country who want to fight in the Armed Forces and help the Ukrainian army. Many different issues - both equipment and units, status. For example, fighters of these Russian units cannot even be captured. They now have a grenade to blow up, but they cannot be captured.

If they are captured, they will be declared terrorists, they will be tortured and different problems will be tortured. - Is this issue of citizenship on the agenda? - Not necessarily. I believe that certain people will want to get citizenship eventually. Many people who have fought on the side of Ukraine from the beginning, since 2014, have been given citizenship. And many promised, but they have not yet received it.